Question about the power ranking formula

[BHB]

Ken,
When I run Claiborne Christian schools record using the volleyball formula (as I understand it) I get 12.53 for CCS. On ***** they also has us with a 12.58 or better using the volleyball formula. He has starks ranked 3rd using the vollyball formula.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks for the help.

[ScrewBall]

Where can the formula be found? I've never looked at it and would like to see it.

Thanks in advance.

[kenramsey]

where do the other sites get their win-loss records from, so they can figure the power ratings for you? i haven't seen another site that publishes every schedule and every score for softball.

if they get the records from kenramsey.com, we would have to compare rankings at the exact same moment so we could be sure we have the exact same win-loss records to work with. kenramsey.com is updating scores 24/7 and kenramsey.com can produce real time data power ratings at any moment of the day, based on the scores we have on our internet schedules.

every time we add one score to our internet schedules, the win-loss records are updated, and the power ratings are recalculated for the entire state.

so, tell me how you figure your rating right now, 1:30pm.

[BHB]

where do the other sites get their win-loss records from, so they can figure the power ratings for you? i haven't seen another site that publishes every schedule and every score for softball.

if they get the records from kenramsey.com, we would have to compare rankings at the exact same moment so we could be sure we have the exact same win-loss records to work with. kenramsey.com is updating scores 24/7 and kenramsey.com can produce real time data power ratings at any moment of the day, based on the scores we have on our internet schedules.

every time we add one score to our internet schedules, the win-loss records are updated, and the power ratings are recalculated for the entire state.

so, tell me how you figure your rating right now, 1:30pm.

I used the scores and information from your site only. The vollyball formula from my understanding is calculated as +5 points for each win plus 1 point for each opponent win, +2.5 points for each tie plus .66 for each opponent win, 0 points for each loss plus .33 for each opponent win. All divided by the number of games played. I only used the data from your site and I don't come up with your numbers. Is this not the vollyball formula?

[BHB]

Where can the formula be found? I've never looked at it and would like to see it.

Thanks in advance.

Screwball, I don't know where it is officially, but the site where I found what I used was cited in my original post. Ken starred it out so I don't think he wants it mentioned on here. I respect KR and will honor his wishes on his site. I actually thought these two sites worked sort of together, so I mentioned it in my original post.

[kenramsey]

lost vs Forest, + opponent wins = 17 x 0.33 = 5.61
won vs LaSalle, +5, + 10 opponent wins = 15
tie vs Neville, 2.5 + (13 opponent wins x .66 = 8.58) = 11.08

and so on thru all of the schedule. total points divided by the total number of lhsaa varsity games played = power rating.

that's a win, loss, and tie to show how i compute the rating. is that the way you do it?

[BHB]

lost vs Forest, + opponent wins = 17 x 0.33 = 5.61
won vs LaSalle, +5, + 10 opponent wins = 15
tie vs Neville, 2.5 + (13 opponent wins x .66 = 8.58) = 11.08

and so on thru all of the schedule. total points divided by the total number of lhsaa varsity games played = power rating.

that's a win, loss, and tie to show how i compute the rating. is that the way you do it?

Yes that is what I do.
Team W, L, or T Points resultnt's wins Team WinsTotal
Forest L 0 0.33 17 5.61
LaSalle W 5 1 16 21
Neville T 2.5 0.66 15 12.4
Choudrant W 5 1 14 19
Lakeside L 0 0.33 18 5.94
Downsville W 5 1 16 21
Epps W 5 1 0 5
Forest L 0 0.33 17 5.61
Marion W 5 1 3 8
Forest W 5 1 17 22
Neville W 5 1 15 20
Ouachita W 5 1 7 12
Sterlington T 2.5 0.66 18 14.38
Spearsville W 5 1 1 6
Marion W 5 1 3 8
Quitman W 5 1 13 18
Downsville W 5 1 16 21
FarmervilleW 5 1 6 11
Kilbourne W 5 1 12 17
Marion W 5 1 3 8
Kilbourne W 5 1 12 17

The total points are 277.94 divided by 21 varsity games played = 13.23524

I only used information from your site to populate the formula.

[BHB]

lost vs Forest, + opponent wins = 17 x 0.33 = 5.61
won vs LaSalle, +5, + 16opponent wins = 21
tie vs Neville, 2.5 + (15opponent wins x .66 = 8.58) = 12.4
won vs Choudrant. +5, +14opponent wins = 19
lost vs lakeside, + opponent's wins = 18 x 0.33 = 5.94
won vs downsville, +5, +16 opponent wins = 21
won vs Epps, +5, +0 opponent wins = 5
lost vs forest, +opponents wins = 17 x 0.33 = 5.61
won vs Marion, +5, + 3 opponent wins = 8
won vs forest, +5, +17 opponent wins = 22
won vs Neville +5, +15 opponent wins = 20
won vs Ouachita +5, +7 opponent wins = 12
tie vs sterlington +2.5, (+18 opponent wins x 0.66 = 11.88) = 14.38
won vs spearsville +5, +1 opponent win = 6
won vs Marion, +5, + 3 opponent wins = 8
won vs Quitmen +5, +13 opponent wins = 18
won vs downsville, +5, +16 opponent wins = 21
won vs Farmerville +5, +6 opponent wins = 11
won vs Kilbourne +5, +12 opponent wins = 17
won vs Marion, +5, + 3 opponent wins = 8
won vs Kilbourne +5, +12 opponent wins = 17
(5.61+21+12.4+19+5.94+21+5+5.61+8+22+20+12+14.38+6 +8+18+21+11+17+8+17)=277.94
277.94/21 varsity games = 13.23524

[kenramsey]

check the softball rankings now at 9:45am
kenneth

[BHB]

check the softball rankings now at 9:45am
kenneth

I did. I ran ours from right now and starks from now.

Here is Starks.
won vs Bethal Christian,+5, + 6opponent wins = 11
lost vs Pitkin, + opponent's wins = 20 x 0.33 = 6.6
won vs Grand Lake, +5, + 13 opponent wins = 18
tie vs Hackberry, 2.5 + (15opponent wins x .66 = 8.58) = 12.4
won vs bell city +5, +3opponent wins = 8
won vs singer, +5, +8 opponent wins = 13
won vs bell city +5, +3opponent wins = 8
won vs Hicks, +5, +9 opponent wins = 14
won vs Cedar Creek +5, +19 opponent wins = 24
won vs Stanley +5, +19 opponent wins = 24
lost vs Glenmora, +opponents wins = 12 x 0.33 = 3.96
won vs Logansport, +5, + 18 opponent wins = 23
won vs Northside Christian, +5, +8 opponent wins = 13
won vs Negreet +5, +8 opponent wins = 13
lost vs Meryville, +opponents wins = 9 x 0.33 = 2.97
won vs Simpson +5, +20 opponent wins = 25
won vs Zwolle +5, +9 opponent win = 14
lost vs Grand lake, +opponents wins = 13 x 0.33 = 4.29
won vs Grand Lake, +5, + 13 opponent wins = 18
lost vs Hackberry, +opponents wins = 15 x 0.33 = 4.95
won vs Hicks, +5, +9 opponent wins = 14
won vs Hackberry +5, +15 opponent wins = 20
lost vs South Cameron, +opponents wins = 14 x 0.33 = 4.62
lost vs Hackberry, +opponents wins = 15 x 0.33 = 4.95
(11+6.6+18+12.4+8+13+8+14+24+24+3.96+23+13+13+2.97 +25+14+4.29+18+4.95+14+20+4.62+4.95)=304.74
304.74/24 varsity games = 12.6975

[THE hEATER]

BHB,
I had that problem last year and know I have a problem this year thanks to Franklin Parish. One of the real problems that KR has is that all teams don't report. Carroll is an example They have beat Richwood twice and I believe that they beat Wossman twice None of the wins show up on the reports.CSC doesn't play in this type distric but it makes a difference when you do. We are already punished for this and we get hit again.Which ever rankings are use for the playoffs all schools should be made to report correctly or face an LHSAA sanction.

[BHB]

BHB,
I had that problem last year and know I have a problem this year thanks to Franklin Parish. One of the real problems that KR has is that all teams don't report. Carroll is an example They have beat Richwood twice and I believe that they beat Wossman twice None of the wins show up on the reports.CSC doesn't play in this type distric but it makes a difference when you do. We are already punished for this and we get hit again.Which ever rankings are use for the playoffs all schools should be made to report correctly or face an LHSAA sanction.

I am in agreement 100% with sanctions for non reporting. They should all have to report to KR or somewhere official that is publicly accessable. But I am only using what KR has posted on his site and his numbers don't come out correctly using the formula. I have run our numbers everyday (I made an excel spreadsheet with the formula rules put in)

[THE hEATER]

Is there a factor for playing up or down classification.

[ScrewBall]

I am in agreement 100% with sanctions for non reporting. They should all have to report to KR or somewhere official that is publicly accessable. But I am only using what KR has posted on his site and his numbers don't come out correctly using the formula. I have run our numbers everyday (I made an excel spreadsheet with the formula rules put in) Are all games included? Aren't out-of-state teams excluded? Maybe you've played some of those in tournaments?

[BHB]

Is there a factor for playing up or down classification.
Not in the Vollyball formula

[BHB]

Are all games included? Aren't out-of-state teams excluded? Maybe you've played some of those in tournaments?

Only LHSAA school varsity games are included. We did play an Arkansas team, but I did not include that in the formula. (i did include it to see if that was how he got the number, but that did not match either)

Keep in mind, I'm only using the information posted on KR, I am using the formula that he gave as an example, the numbers are totaled and then divided by the game numbers in the post (you can check my math) and the numbers do not match the PR number. I am only asking what else is there to the formula?

[THE hEATER]

Is this the formular that we are using are is there another one,

[THE hEATER]

What about the teams you play that have a tie. How do you figure that.

[ScrewBall]

Only LHSAA school varsity games are included. We did play an Arkansas team, but I did not include that in the formula. (i did include it to see if that was how he got the number, but that did not match either)

Keep in mind, I'm only using the information posted on KR, I am using the formula that he gave as an example, the numbers are totaled and then divided by the game numbers in the post (you can check my math) and the numbers do not match the PR number. I am only asking what else is there to the formula? Interesting. I would Imagine there's a good explanation but I'm also sure it would be easy for a mistake to be made with all that late-night crunching of numbers Ken does practically 24/7. I don't require much sleep but I think he definitely has me beat.

[BHB]

Is this the formular that we are using are is there another one,

There is NO OFFICIAL formula for softball that I am aware of. The vollyball formula is the one KR uses. It is a good formula that really only rewards teams for playing quality teams regardless of classification.

[BHB]

What about the teams you play that have a tie. How do you figure that.

Heater,
Here is what KR posted about the formula:
"lost vs Forest, + opponent wins = 17 x 0.33 = 5.61
won vs LaSalle, +5, + 10 opponent wins = 15
tie vs Neville, 2.5 + (13 opponent wins x .66 = 8.58) = 11.08

and so on thru all of the schedule. total points divided by the total number of lhsaa varsity games played = power rating.

that's a win, loss, and tie to show how i compute the rating. is that the way you do it?"

So there is an example of a win, loss, and tie for each game.

[ScrewBall]

What about the teams you play that have a tie. How do you figure that.


Posted above.

+2.5 + ( opponent wins x .66 )

[BHB]

Interesting. I would Imagine there's a good explanation but I'm also sure it would be easy for a mistake to be made with all that late-night crunching of numbers Ken does practically 24/7. I don't require much sleep but I think he definitely has me beat.

I figured it was a clitch or something. It seems to be fixed now.

[THE hEATER]

guys, what I was talking about is if CCS beats Lasalle I know that it is 5+ wins but they have a tie. Now do you just forget the tie that they got extra points for.does an opponates tie figure in to your points.

[FANatic]

Just a bump for those wondering.


Here is what KR posted about the formula:
loss = opponent wins (total) x 0.33 = 5.61
win= +5, + 1 pt per each opponent win = 15
tie= 2.5 + (total opponent wins x .66 = 8.58) = 11.08

[kenramsey]

these rankings change everytime i add one score to any schedule. the only way anyone will ever match up is if every win-loss record is exactly the same at that very moment.

[kenramsey]

if you guys want to call me one day and compare numbers, we can do that. we must be sure we are using the same win-loss records for every team. that's why we must compare at the same exact time.

we are adding scores all throughout the day on our internet schedules. everytime we add a score, the rankings change. this is different from the football rankings. once the scores have been locked in for the week, we have all week to compare. it's not that way in the non football sports.

[FANatic]

if you guys want to call me one day and compare numbers, we can do that. we must be sure we are using the same win-loss records for every team. that's why we must compare at the same exact time.

we are adding scores all throughout the day on our internet schedules. everytime we add a score, the rankings change. this is different from the football rankings. once the scores have been locked in for the week, we have all week to compare. it's not that way in the non football sports.
If you're referring to me, I wasn't questioning you/the power ratings. Simply hear a lot of chit chat about them this time of year, especially, so thought I'd kick the thread as a public service, sorry.

[kenramsey]

i don't mind anyone questioning the ratings. it's just that by the time we compare, and email back and forth, new scores will have been added and my ratings will be updated.

it's so much easier to do it on the phone. please don't take my previous message the wrong way. i'm more than happy to discuss the power ratings. but, they cahnge so much faster than our back and forth emails can keep up. we'd be much better off talking about them on the phone so we can be looking at the same numbers.